03 April 2005

Writing Paper


Hello
This is my first post here, and I am a beginner to Gregg Shorthand.  I must say, this is an awesome group here.  Anyway, onto my question.  In writiting, what paper do you use?  Normal lined paper?  Blank paper?  Big Lined Paper? 
Oh, and if you were to write "dadadadada", wouldn't you end up with a massive line that extends at least 5 or more spaces high?  Why does that seem counter productive?
Thanks

(by _pie_man_ for everyone)

33 comments:

  1. One of the advantages of Gregg, often cited Dr Gregg and others, is that no special paper was needed--in contrasted to Pitman-based systems that relied in positions.   In general, I like lined paper and use a legal pad. When I was in medical school, I actually Pitman lined steno pads because the Pitman lines are father apart than Gregg. I like extra rooom for the significant use of disjoined prefixes and suffixes in medical Gregg.   Brian

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  2. Ahh, it's nice to know I don't need special paper.  If I write with just normal paper then, is it save to say something like a t extends half way up the space, and a d extends to the top?  How big is an a?  an e?

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  3. The paper used in Gregg steno books is called Gregg ruled, which means three spaces to the inch, that is, each space is 1/3 inch.   What is the correct proportion?  To do that, imagine the space divided in half, and the lower half divided in half again, as this   _________________________  Top  (T)   _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _  Half  (H) _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _  Quarter  (Q) _________________________  Bottom  (B)   Using that analogy, these are the proportions for the vertical consonants:   t and th:  B to Q d, tn (dn) blend, and nd (nt) blend:  B to H td blend, tm blend, mt blend:  B to T sh, and s: Q to B ch, p, and f:  H to B j, b, and v:  T to B   For the vowels, the "a" circle occupies half the space, whereas the "e" circle and the hooks occupy the bottom quarter.   It takes some time to get used to the proportions, but once you do it comes second nature.  In fact, for me, I cannot write Gregg shorthand on Pitman ruled paper (which is much wider) -- it feels too wide for my taste.  But try and experiment.  Some people like the wider paper.  However, I don't recommend anything narrower than 1/3 inch.   I hope this helps.    

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  4. Uhoh, my paper is .02" smaller than that.  Will that be a problem?    Thanks for the info.  I couldn't find that anywhere.  I'll post if I have anymore questions.  This forum is a great resourse!

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  5. No, I don't think it would be a problem, as long as you keep the proportions.

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  6. This message has been deleted by the author.

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  7. 2 more questions.  If I was to write the word "affair", would the 2 a's be touching because one takes the top, and the other the bottom?  Secondly, is there punctuation for things like !, ;, or ,?

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  8. LOL! It's just like longhand: How do you know whether you're looking at a lower-case L or a lower-case E if the paper is unruled? It's all based on proportion. brian 

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  9. Addendum: The L vs E example is from Louis Leslie, Methods of Teaching Gregg Shrothand (1953)

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  10. No, the a's are not touching because the "f" is slanted:       The first "a" starts at the middle of the space, the "f" slants down past the first "a". When it touches the bottom, the second "a" starts, and the "r" starts just before the f.   I have added in the documents section a file called "proportion", so that you have an idea of how the letters are proportionally written in Gregg-ruled paper.

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  11. Ahh, I get it.  Thanks.   After looking at that, I notice my paper isn't big enough.  Where can one find such paper with big spaces?

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  12. Go to any office supply store and get a steno notebook. More than likely it would say "Gregg ruled". A letter or legal pad will also work out -- their ruling is close to Gregg.

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  13. What about just normal looseleaf?  That's what I have, and 3 spaces is .15" short.  Is that too much?

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  14. Here's where post editing would have been handy The spacing is 1/4".  Too small?

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  15. That's running it a little tight.  It can be done, but you need to slant the strokes even more to compensate.  If you write longhand very vertically, it may be a problem.

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  16. Well, thats what I've been doing, and I notice that my slanted strokes are slightly more slanted.  But hey, it makes for a more obvious look on 1/3" too.   http://www.werelight.com/shorthand/normal/index.htm <- Is that simplified shorthand?  I hope so, because that's what I'm learning.

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  17. That is Diamond Jubilee, which is a more recent series than Simplified.  It is very similar to Simplified, but some brief forms were eliminated and it had further simplifications.   You asked about the comma and the semicolon in shorthand: we use the same symbol (! , or ;), except that we put a circle around the comma and semicolon since it can be confused with shorthand strokes.  Most of the time we don't write punctuation while we are taking dictation unless it is absolutely necessary.

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  18. Ahh, I've already ordered a book, so I'm just waiting for it to get here.  Are there any simplified resources in the mean time?

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  19. And to add to what I said previously, when writing, you can phonetlicaly spell out words you don't know, and most of the time get the outline right, right?

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  20. I'm not sure that there are any simplified resources online.  But you can use that werelight site in the meantime, while you get your book.  Diamond Jubilee is close to Simplified, so at least you will be learning something similar.   And yes, you are right.  If you don't know the outline, write it out phonetically!

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  21. I was reading, and I was just about to ask if the DJS is close, as the site said the books are almost identicle until a number of chapters in.  So I guess I'll just use that site until it comes!  Thanks

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  22. Crap I wish I could edit my posts.  If anyone would be kind enough to perhaps just read through the site and point out any differences in there, and tell me what is done i simplified, i'd greatly appreciate it.

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  23. Click below for this earlier post and read the whole thread.  One of my posts has the differences:   http://groups.msn.com/GreggShorthand/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=120&LastModified=4675485405820147916

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  24. Sweet, so what is covered in those first few pages is virtually identical to simplified.  Thanks soo much.  So there is no change in alphabet, like there is in aniversery->DJS?

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  25. OK, I got myself some 3 spaces per inch paper, and it does help.    I have a question though.  When writing a word like face, is the entier outline only half a space?  Then the word vase would be the entire space?  Correct?

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  26. Yes, those first lessons are virtually identical -- there is no change in alphabet.  In fact, the Gregg alphabet has been the same for a long time!  The alphabets between DJS and Anniv are the same -- the only difference is the diacritical marks in Anniv for denoting some of the sounds, the way you connect some signs (hooks to r and l), and the elimination of some blends in DJS.   Writing the word "face" -- yes, you start at the middle of the space.  For "vase", you start at the top.  Remember to keep the slant.

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  27. Ya, the diacritical marks were what I was refering to.   After just trying to write some basic words, I've noticed I'm having troulbe writing with any slant.  Almost everything is completly vertical.  Any tips?  Do you hold the paper at an angle so that your writing is slanted, or do you naturaly slant it?

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  28. I usually hold the paper diagonally -- it works out for me.  Check the article "fuss and feathers" in the documents section for some tips.

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  29. Growing up in Philadelphia I attended public school until I transferred to a Catholic parochial school and was introduced to the Palmer method of writing long hand. I am right handed in everything but handwriting. In those days they would not help me switch hands because they thought it would make one stutter. In Palmer (who by the way was a good friend of Gregg) lefties positioned the writing paper in the opposite slope righties. When  I taught myself shorthand (in conjunction with the fact that I was teaching my elementary class their spelling in shorthand, I was two lessons ahead of them) I found  that I could write long and shorthand with either hand on the black-board. I showed the class samples of Pitman and Gregg. They voted that we study Gregg. To this day I cannot write clearly with my right hand on paper and yet I taught myself Gregg WITH MY RIGHT HAND! And quite nicely! My point : Adapt, adapt, adapt.Gregg valued legibility to the writer over penmanship.Whatever works for you, do that. Pinching the pen retards speed and makes your hand tired. If you are comftable,fluent and legible - great!

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  30. I forgot to mention I taught myself right handed Gregg so my bad left hand habits would not carry over to my shorthand. I was successful! I formed all new bad habits with my right hand. I lated discovered Gregg had published special techniques for lefties. Too late now. I'm a shorthand rightie, bad habits and all!

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  31. This is a question I've wondered about, too.  If you have to write 'dadadadada,' does it extend up half the page?

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  32. <>  LOL  abbreviate it to 'da'?

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  33. A shorthand notebook is available online for Shorthand writers. You could buy the notebook--470 pages, beautifully bound (I have a copy)--or you could download the book for free, and print only as many pages as you need.

    Look here:

    http://www.lulu.com/content/142846

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